some questions from Lizzie the story of lizzie borden

[RayS]

Short Reply to 'Yooper': the same way most of the other people also question the statements of some. Keep Cool.
I understand that there has been a reduction in dairy farms in many areas. The price for a hundredweight was $15 in 1978, and mostly below that in the past decades. A price squeeze on farmers. The rising price of oil and gasoline will have an effect on milk and other foodstuffs.
Any factual comments you can make will be appreciated.

PS In the 1990s I used to often read 'Hoard's Dairyman'. What did you read?

[Yooper]

This discussion demonstrates what is often wrong w/ this board.
People will speculate about the barn torn down in the 1930s (?), but not about any recent activities.
I haven't been in a dairy barn for many years, but remember it as being cool until the afternoon. The sides had open slots to let the hay dry out.
I hope some of those here can tell of their recent experiences in a similar barn.

If the problem with this board is speculation, what exactly were you doing when you attempted to sit in judgment of my life experiences?

[Kat]

Harry also reminded me of this, from the FRPD website. It doesn't say what these uniforms are made of:

[theebmonique]

That was an excellent thing to post Kat...thank you.

If Hilliard is that much of a stickler for detail about the officers uniforms, maybe it could suggest that the same amount of attention was paid to the investigation of the Borden murders ? Maybe what we may now think of as "not all that great of police work" was truly because they just didn't know as much then as we do now...as some of our members have suggested ?


Tracy...

[Harry]

Regarding the police officers in uniform on the 4th. I have only been able to find information on 5 of them. Officers Allen, Doherty and Wilson were in civilian clothes. Officers Harrington and Mullaly in uniform.

In Porter's Fall River Tragedy, page 8:

"... Inside the yard and house, policemen in uniform and in citizen's garb, hurried to and fro with an air of mystery which was becoming them, for to all appearances the assassin had vanished as completely as if the earth had opened and swallowed him."

Porter was the police reporter for the FR Globe and probably knew them all.

The most testimony regarding the uniforms comes from John Donnelly, the hack driver at the Preliminary hearing. He was not able to identify which specific officers were in uniform but claimed to see from "between seven to eight" after his visit to the barn. It was Donnelly who claimed to have seen the impression in the hay. He also claimed to have talked with Southard Miller in the Borden's yard. Miller had said that he had never gone across the street.

There is also something else about Donnelly's testimony that is interesting. He estimates he arrived about 11:45 and stood around the yard talking for 15 minutes before he went into the barn. His arrival would have been just after Morse had arrived back home. On page 439 he testifies:

"Q. How many people do you think you saw there when you got there?
A. There might have been 25 or 30."

From his testimony it appears he's including the police, etc. in the house at the time. It's one of the few places where we get some idea of the size of the crowd when Morse arrived.

[Yooper]

Were the police who were wearing civilian clothes called from the holiday gathering or were they off-duty and not attending the gathering? Did the gathering favor the more senior members of the police force?

[Harry]

I don't believe the Rocky Point police excursion was for any specific rank. As far as I know no police were called from Rocky Point. Without looking at a map I don't know how feasible it would have been to return to Fall River in time to be of any use during the early hours of the investigation.

Rebello has this on page 89, quoting from Prter's book:

"Almost all of the night patrolmen and many of the day men were absent from the city on the day of the killing, on the annual excursion of the Fall River Police Association to Rocky Point, a shore resort near Providence, Rhode Island, and this unusual condition served greatly to handicap the efforts of Marshal Hilliard in his attempt to get possession of a tangible clue to the perpetration of the crimes. The city was but poorly protected by members of the day force, who were doing double duty. However, within half an hour after the general alarm had been sent out a half dozen officers from the central part of the city had arrived at the Borden house." Porter, Edwin H., The Fall River Tragedy: History of the Borden Murders, 1893: 8"

So it appears Hilliard had to hold some men on duty. There are several different estimates of what per cent of the police were away at the excursion.

[Yooper]

I wonder if the rookies were left minding the store. It is difficult to determine from the quote whether quality suffered along with quantity.

[Harry]

Probably most of the night patrolmen were newer and less experienced. They would get stuck with the less desirable hours. According to the Porter quote most of them were at the picnic.