The Sink

[Kat]

Here is a 3-D floorplan I just found in The Terence Duniho Collection.

[Ad]

I’ve got to tell you Kat, you made my day!!! Thanks for the gift! This is a great perspective of the house.

It adds so much more to see walls and understand the real flow of the house. I’m so used to seeing the layout from a bird’s eye view. This is very refreshing!!

It would be nice to have the WHOLE house AND barn like this, including a clearer “blueprint” of the yard, complete with woodpile, fencing, old well, barrels – everything that was there on that day at that time!!!

This would fit nicely into a computer program….I just wish I knew how to do it.
I’m afraid to admit that I don’t know of Terence Duniho.
Are there anymore pictures like this?

[Kat]

You are wonderfully curious and interested in everything. It's refreshing.
As I find things in his collection, I will share what I can.

Terence Duniho was a Bordenite from Rhode Island, who was a part of the Message Board/Forum community. He was researching and writing a fictionalized account of his theory of the Borden murders, when he died suddenly. He was a friend to a lot of us, helpful and friendly, and also wrote for the LBQ. Just before he died Stefani got to meet him and his wife in St. Augustine. His widow has recently generously donated to Stefani (and in a way to myself), his papers and collection.

In Rebello, page 48, there is another 3-D style floorplan of 92 Second Street.

I also posted a Terence item in the Privy.

[Susan]

Thanks for sharing that with us, Kat! What a neat, unique perspective of #92. I noticed one thing that looked odd, it looks like the locked door in the guest room goes into Emma's room instead of Lizzie's.

[Allen]

I was wondering why it seemed that Andrew's body is lying on the floor? I guess that's just small thing though.

[Kat]

I noticed the body of Andrew but not the door of the guest room.
Yes I agree the body is a small thing.
The door between the guest room and Lizzie's looks borderline to me. Like they just left a line out?
But they also left the closets out.
If the closet in Emma's room had been included, it would be more obvious that the guestroom door was next to that and could not lead into Emma's room.
I only just noticed the closets are not there, Susan because of your comment. You have a *trained eye* I believe?

[Kat]

I heard back from past B&B curator Bill Pavao today. I had explained the dry sink idea to him and asked his opinion.

He replied that he thought it was an interesting and creative idea- but that there is no testimony, floorplans or evidence for such a thing existing or in use in the kitchen proper.
He said if the main reason to suppose there was one is because of Emma's testimony about catching Lizzie about to burn a dress, he said Emma could easily see what Lizzie was doing if she stepped back away from the sink in the sink room.

That's the main gist of his opinion.
I think anyone can take it or leave it, as they wish, but I thank him for it.

[Allen]

He replied that he thought it was an interesting and creative idea- but that there is no testimony, floorplans or evidence for such a thing existing or in use in the kitchen proper.
He said if the main reason to suppose there was one is because of Emma's testimony about catching Lizzie about to burn a dress, he said Emma could easily see what Lizzie was doing if she stepped back away from the sink in the sink room.

Actually, there is no direct testimony that states where Emma or Bridget actually were at the time they did the dishes, other than they were in the kitchen. It's an assumption based on the location of the faucet that they were in the sink room. Emma seeing Lizzie burn the dress is not the only reason I believe their may have been some sort of sink in the kitchen.

[Ad]

Take a look at the floor plan on page 49 of Len Rebello’s book. If you use a straight edge and run it from the sink room doorway to the closet doorway next to the stove (where Lizzie was to have been standing) I think you’ll find that the landing doorframe is right in the way, blocking a clear line of sight. This still doesn’t mean that Emma couldn’t have seen Lizzie if they were both in motion.

I’ve not been to the house (yet) so it’s hard for me to tell just how much of Emma’s view would have been blocked (if at all) by the doorframe.

[Kat]

The main reason is not the same as the only reason, of course, I agree. But his opinion is based on no proof in any testimony, statements, floorplans or descriptions of the kitchen -which reasons I posted.

[Susan]

The question arises in my mind of would Andrew permit them to have a dry sink in the kitchen? He chose where the running water went in the house despite the fact of the possible inconvienance of the sink room. Would he pay to have another sink put in, dry or otherwise if he was as frugal as he is made out to be? This is one of those things where it would be wonderful if they had taken more interior photos of the Borden home at the time of the murders.

[Haulover]

i believe i understand everything that has been said about this. in my mind, i keep coming back to the issue of practicality. this is something we don't have proof of one way or the other. and for argument's sake -- nevermind the "genuine dry sink."

the question is: did we presume emma was in the sink room BECAUSE she was washing dishes because that's where the water pump was? and is that the only reason?

then the question is: why would anyone take dishes to the sink room to wash them to take them back to the kitchen or dining room? is this reasonable, especially if you need hot water? the water pump is by the door. that faucet would not be expressly for washing dishes, would it? this was not "our version" of the kitchen sink, was it?

i don't want to make it more complicated than it is -- but it seems more trouble than it's worth or is practical to take dishes to the sink room. i'm looking for a simple "dish-washing basin" though i haven't found one. i am speculating, but i'm asking why the presumption that emma is in the sink room?

this topic -- i forget who started it -- is an excellent question, anyway.

clarification: i'm not interested in whether there was a dry sink in the kitchen but where they stood as they washed dishes.

i'm going to the preliminary on this now, but i just wanted to state my perspective on the issue.

[Audrey]

If Bill Pavao, who worked and lived in the house for many years thinks Emma could have seen Lizzie at the stove from stepping away from the sink in the sink room, I believe it.

[Allen]

This is something I have been thinking about quite a bit, because the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to me. But this is just my opinion, and I have to admit there is no real concrete way to prove it. There is no evidence to support it other than the fact that testimony by Emma, Bridget, and Miss Russell doesn't make any sort of sense at all if you look at it the other way. There also isn't any concrete proof in the testimony which states they were definitely in the 'sink room'. In my opinion it was just an assumption that was made based on the location of the cold water faucet down stairs.

There is also the idea of how the dishes would have been done which usually entailed the heating of water to be transfered to a sink. I can't see how it would be more convenient to carry it through the kitchen and down the hall instead of walking a few steps across the kitchen. I agree with Haulover in that it doesn't seem very practical. The work they did back then was already hard, in my opinion, would they want to make it any more tedious than it already was?

Bridget also clearly distinguished between the kitchen, pantry, and sink room in her testimony, yet also states clearly that she was doing dishes in the kitchen. Another witness also clearly distinguishes that she was in the 'sink room' in her home, she didn't refer to it as her kitchen either. It could be as Kat says that because the three rooms were connected, all three of those rooms were refered to as the kitchen, but all of the rooms in that house were connected. All the rooms in my house are connected with no hallways, I still clearly distinguish between them.

Emma would have had to do more than step away from the sink to see Lizzie at the stove, in my opinion. She would have to walk out into the entry hall, or at least look out past the doorway and down the hall, which to me doesn't gibe with her 'turning around' and then 'turning back around'. She also couldn't see Miss Russell in the dining room from the sink room. The sink was against the far wall in the room, the outside wall, the hallway door was on the other side. I don't know about wondering around while you are washing dishes, unless it was to do another kitchen task, it would seem to me to make it more time consuming to do things this way, and the work day would've been long enough already.

I also wonder if there would've been a sight line through to the kitchen from the sink room if the pantry door was open? On all most of the house charts I have seen there are shelves on the wall where the 'opening' is. But if there was a clear line of sight through the 'opening', as Kat pointed out you still wouldnt' be able to see Lizzie in the corner of the kitchen by the closet from the sink room.


I agree with Susan, it would be nice if they had taken more interior pictures of the house. There are so many questions that could be easily answered if we had pictures to give us a reference.

The idea of Andrew putting the clothing away was a really good question. Which brought another question to my mind. Why was our Miss Lizzie putting away her clothes on Thursday?

[Haulover]

Bridget, Prelim, pg 26

Q. When was the last time you had anything to do with the fire?
A. After getting breakfast, and washing my dishes, I did not see the fire again. I had no business with it.

Pg 73:

Q. Did you have any boiler there, or have to heat the water with a tea kettle?
A. Heat the water with a tea kettle.
Q. You did not finish washing the dishes until after nine o'clock?
A. Not right finished up.

____________________

that's for the context of heating water for dish-washing. i'm trying to visualize a train of thought. if she doesn't wash them near to the stove, she's taking hot water to the sink room? well, i guess she'll dump the water in the sink room eventually, but why wash dishes there since she would have to take dishes there and then bring them back?

____________________

about the sight from the sink room to the stove -- i don't see how anybody could see the stove from there. or even if it's possible, that's a difficult perspective. basically, you have to get out of that hallway to see the stove -- unless memory fails.

[Kat]

Bridget keeps the dishes on the dining room table- I'm not sure where else she keeps them. It's my understanding that after she cleans the dishes she re-sets the table for the next meal.

We were "interrupted" at the point where we were examining the sink area- I was talking a bit too loudly and Stefani called down that they could hear me on the tour.
Anyway, that will show that by standing there we could be heard upstairs for sure!

[Allen]

The question arises in my mind of would Andrew permit them to have a dry sink in the kitchen? He chose where the running water went in the house despite the fact of the possible inconvienance of the sink room. Would he pay to have another sink put in, dry or otherwise if he was as frugal as he is made out to be? This is one of those things where it would be wonderful if they had taken more interior photos of the Borden home at the time of the murders.

Haulover has me thinking about the possibility of the basin without a dry sink, but a dry sink was basically just another piece of kitchen furniture like a table or a chair. It could be moved about, or even moved from house to house if so desired. It was a cabinet that had could have drawers and shelves for storing things, some counter space, and either a sink well in the top, or simply a backsplash for a basin of water. From what I've read about them, they were used not only for doing dishes, but in food cleaning/preparation and other kitchen tasks. The water used while doing the dishes was often saved to be used again for other tasks such as washing floors. Some of them even had a drain that ran from the sink well and into a bucket below for just this purpose. It was basically a kitchen work station.

If they did own one, it's possible they could've brought it from the other house the same as their other belongings, or since the house was not hooked up to a water supply maybe the last owner left one in the house when they moved out. Or they could've purchased one because it was a pretty common place item to have, same as a sofa or table.They varied in designs and styles the same as other furniture. On many sites I've looked at this is the way they are listed, as kitchen furniture. Some examples of the different designs, I included a lot, but I didn't realize how many I had bookmarked until I began adding them to my post . So I figured what the heck I'll just include them all. There is even a picture of a childs dry sink.







http://www.murphyauctions.com/SFold/Sal ... rySink.jpg

http://www.riversideantiques.com/Images ... k-zoom.htm

http://www.artofamericapast.com/Kitchen ... nk_med.htm

http://www.prices4antiques.com/itemsummary/33550.htm

http://www.benchleysfurniture.com/webga ... 20Sink.htm

http://www.folkpark.com/collections/Ame ... /Dry_Sink/

http://www.prices4antiques.com/itemsummary/162500.htm

http://www.laurelmeadow.com/antiques/on ... %5Fpieces/

[Allen]

Bridget, Prelim, pg 26

Q. When was the last time you had anything to do with the fire?
A. After getting breakfast, and washing my dishes, I did not see the fire again. I had no business with it.

Pg 73:

Q. Did you have any boiler there, or have to heat the water with a tea kettle?
A. Heat the water with a tea kettle.
Q. You did not finish washing the dishes until after nine o'clock?
A. Not right finished up.

____________________

that's for the context of heating water for dish-washing. i'm trying to visualize a train of thought. if she doesn't wash them near to the stove, she's taking hot water to the sink room? well, i guess she'll dump the water in the sink room eventually, but why wash dishes there since she would have to take dishes there and then bring them back?

____________________

about the sight from the sink room to the stove -- i don't see how anybody could see the stove from there. or even if it's possible, that's a difficult perspective. basically, you have to get out of that hallway to see the stove -- unless memory fails.

Thanks so much to Haulover for finding and sharing this bit of testimony. I really appreciated this.

[theebmonique]

Oh Melissa...you should get the Prelim. It is well worth the price. Whether you get the Prelim by itself, or the combo all-in-one for a bit more, it is something to have indeed. I think as a Hatchet subscriber, you may get a discount through The Hatchet website (the new passwords should be available soon I am sure). Stef has a wealth of info available for us...some for free, and some for a small fee. My only wish about it, is that I wish it was not in .pdf. Maybe that helps with security though huh ?

http://www.hatchetonline.com/HatchetOnline/index.htm


Tracy...

[Allen]

I've been thinking about getting a copy of the Preliminary Hearing, I think it would be a great addition to my collection, and it would be a very useful tool. So far I just haven't gotten around to it yet. Thanks for the link and the information Tracy.

[StevenB]

Well, Andrew could decide where he wanted a sink when he had the running water installed. So it seems to me he had the choice to put the sink anywhere in the kitchen proper, but he didn't- he put it in the northeast corner by the door and where the pantry is.

The sink would have been in the house all ready, remember the house was built in 1845, and was out of date by 1892. Mrs. Churchills sink may have been in her kitchen as that was where people were putting them by 1892. Emma was most likely washing dishes in the kitchen in an enamel dish basin if she was in the kitchen. Dry sinks went out well before 1845. The sink shows up in the trail exhibit floor plan on the back wall with shelves on the left and the ice box would have been on the right wall. Yes it would have been cramped! But it would have kept the Ice Man from messing up the kitchen floor. Perhaps because it was a tight space is why they did dishes in the Kitchen plus the stove was there. Every account says Lizzie was in the corner between the closet and the stove, maybe the stove was over more then, because I remember there being a lot of room between the stove in the kitchen today and the closet. Things weren't in fixed places back then, kitchen chores were very mobile and relied on special tools or kitchenware it's very different then from the way we use our kitchens today! If Emma was washing dishes in the sink I guess she could have stepped in time to see what Lizzie was doing, or she over heard someone say something about the dress that Lizzie was burning and Emma came out to see what was going on.

StevenB

[Allen]

I have another question we may never know the answer to, but it's something I've been pondering over. Bridget testified that Andrew cleaned his teeth in the kitchen that morning. In his autopsy report it is stated that he had artificial teeth in his upper jaw. So my question is, was he taking his teeth out to clean then at the sink?

[1bigsteve]

Probably. I remember my Grandfather always removing his plates before scrubbing them with a brush. I'm guessing that Andrew most likely took his out to clean. Seeds and food can get caught between the plate and gums and hurt.

-1bigsteve (o: